tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post3445088563514661711..comments2023-07-11T11:02:40.418-04:00Comments on Sleepless in Space: The Downward Spiral of Low SecShadaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03942277881963969067noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-6694717226554133832011-01-17T10:49:53.660-05:002011-01-17T10:49:53.660-05:00P.S. I find the indignation about the 'asshole...P.S. I find the indignation about the 'asshole' remark rather amusing. Being an asshole is the main part of a pirate's job description. That any particular pirate might on rare occasions decide to show mercy or some other non-assholish quality is irrelevant.<br /><br />Perhaps what bothered them is the fact that while all pirates are assholes, not all assholes are pirates. Like me, for instance. I'd guess that a large majority of EVE players spend a significant amount of their time in-game 'being assholes.' (Whether it's pirating or can-flipping or scamming or ninja looting, or flaming, or making deviant comments in public chat, or setting up in a WH that's above their pay grade (I see assholes like this almost every day) or even (arguably) .01'ing and price-gouging.)<br /><br />Besides, if it weren't for assholes we'd all have to wear diapers.Jonathan Fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11040770112301192267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-32970975054556804842011-01-16T22:27:13.976-05:002011-01-16T22:27:13.976-05:00I really like 2 ideas presented here:
The '...I really like 2 ideas presented here: <br /><br />The 'can only increase sec status by shooting rats in low-sec' idea. (Which will force people into low-sec in a way that makes sense from a logical/gameplay perspective.)<br /><br />and<br /><br />The 'bounties pay a % of the value of the ship blown up' idea. (Which is the only workable bounty system I can think of (which is at least an improvement on the 'no bounty system is workable' hypothesis of OP.)) Of course, the % would have to be relatively small (30% or less) because of that stupid, illogical, immersion-breaking beast called insurance.<br /><br />I like the overall content of the post. OP comes off as arrogant though (as I usually do) so shouldn't be surprised if there is somewhat of a negative backlash.<br /><br />I particularly agree that you can't 'improve' low-sec by making pirates more powerful than they already are or by providing ISK-making bonanzas that will attract large 0.0 alliances. Any ideas like that are non-starters. (Though CCP did well to buff low-sec ores when they recently were all significantly less valuable/m^3 than veldspar.)Jonathan Fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11040770112301192267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-34614802367938943682011-01-16T21:57:10.611-05:002011-01-16T21:57:10.611-05:00P.S. Sorry late to the party...life's been bus...P.S. Sorry late to the party...life's been busy.<br /><br /><br />-- MynxeeCarole Pivarnikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787775846290065794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-82748849300082221352011-01-16T21:55:42.552-05:002011-01-16T21:55:42.552-05:00There's a reason that it's so difficult to...There's a reason that it's so difficult to come to a conclusion about what to do with Low Sec...and that is because it's difficult to define a cohesive gameplay vision that balances comfortably between what defines high sec and what defines null sec that does put pirates, black market, outlaws, etc., potentially at the center of that vision (as is my preference). <br /><br />Whatever design happens, it needs to permit players to impact their environment in a persistent way (not just in the moment when they are present), drive conflict, require competition for resources or targets, and offer commensurate benefits. But not in the same way nor for the same reasons as null sec--it needs to be a different flavor. Simple formula, difficult to design--but those are the key ingredients for creating a dynamic environment. And I don't think it can happen simply by tacking on a bunch of unrelated stuff. Interdependencies are important in any design--including, and maybe especially, game design.<br /><br />One good starting point might actually be FW, perhaps mix it up with some evolution of Incursions, permit alliance with the pirate factions, etc. I don't really know; I'm not a game designer.<br /><br />Didn't particularly care for your reference to pirates as acting like assholes, but I'll assume you were using it casually and not to reflect a personal opinion. Either way, it's pretty subjective. Most pirates I know are just looking to make ISK, they simply do it at the expense of someone else. And in fact, pirates that I have been affliated with will very often take the time to coach victims who haven't been playing long about ship fits and strategies, to help educate them and maybe give them a better chance of survival next time. Pirates are predators, but they are not generally assholes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-72255915824310052302011-01-15T18:52:04.093-05:002011-01-15T18:52:04.093-05:00also forget to mention for the low sec solution, a...also forget to mention for the low sec solution, also abolish the 15 minute gcc timer and no sov rule. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-23865237649463029212011-01-15T18:45:32.529-05:002011-01-15T18:45:32.529-05:00bounty fix.
cause the bounty to invalidate the clo...bounty fix.<br />cause the bounty to invalidate the clone insurance pay. I.e. a bounty hunter will not only cause a claim of the bounty on the head of the character, but will also cause the character to loose a percentage of the skillpoints, exponentially scaled with the bounty amount, of the current highest top5 skill. Now eat that. ;) And maybe there should be also something like a max of bounty that can be set on a head over time, f.e. only 1 bounty every x months to alliviate for bounty griefing.<br /><br />low sec issue.<br />Where is the most fun solo/small gang pvp warfare to be had at this moment ? in npc 0.0 sec.<br />So why not copy that success receipt to low sec but better.<br /><br />i.e.<br />no gate guns, no station guns, no bubbles (blockade runners hauling goods to all of lowsec in relative safety, makes lowsec at the moment interesting for "haulers", we should keep that), removal of security status (pirates should like 0.0 dwellers be able at all times to enter high sec) and the theg rhind ideas about giving lowsec a criminal "backdrop" are also nice.<br />The above solution might not solve all of lowsec problems, but it sure will make it a "more fun pvp" place. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-40391423839709561312011-01-15T17:10:21.356-05:002011-01-15T17:10:21.356-05:00If CCP ever ban combat probes in low-sec, a prover...If CCP ever ban combat probes in low-sec, a proverbial dam will burst and every mission runner who got burnt by the scanning changes of Apocrypha will flood back in.<br /><br />It's that simple.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-12323280887617008062011-01-11T19:58:31.982-05:002011-01-11T19:58:31.982-05:00I have proposed another method of revamping the bo...I have proposed another method of revamping the bounty system... thoughts and oppinions are appreciated in the thread:<br />http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1446632Foxgguy2001https://www.blogger.com/profile/04135813567318335680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-46190401901713417612011-01-11T13:24:14.460-05:002011-01-11T13:24:14.460-05:00Being a few days late, but finally seeing this art...Being a few days late, but finally seeing this article after it was linked on CK's Musing, I decided to stick my nose where it didn't belong with my own blog post. <br /><br />http://evefng.blogspot.com/2011/01/if-it-aint-broke.htmlFNGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12728186789797445881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-20093795583391246482011-01-10T15:40:18.786-05:002011-01-10T15:40:18.786-05:00I've indeed 'caught you out.' You sta...I've indeed 'caught you out.' You state your opinions in a manner nullifying any validity they might have. It's not your personal experience that invalidated those opinions, but the manner in which you voice them. <br /><br />Until such a time as you are able to convey those opinions in a rational intelligent manner it is indeed better (though not probable) you 'slink away' in silence. <br /><br /><br />I'm very willing to consider contributory responses, but yours are just inflammatory and accusatory and have no place here amongst intelligent debate on the issue.Foxgguy2001https://www.blogger.com/profile/04135813567318335680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-18049028609312885272011-01-10T14:16:13.976-05:002011-01-10T14:16:13.976-05:00Yes, you're absolutely right Fox, you caught m...Yes, you're absolutely right Fox, you caught me out. How dare I have an opinion about the state of lowsec and what might be done about it....especially when it's attached to a post about ahh...oh yea, the state lowsec and what could be done about it. <br /><br />You are correct however that my opinions of lowsec and those who regularly dwell there are based on personal experiences...which you seem infer ought to completely and totally invalidate said opinions I guess. I get it. I'll go slink away now and shut-up.Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08518386489741072523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-60365369281414502882011-01-10T13:27:38.647-05:002011-01-10T13:27:38.647-05:00Did you even read the above blog post or Jagers? I...Did you even read the above blog post or Jagers? I don't know how you've formed your opinions, but they are for the most part erroneous, the low-sec systems are great...mission rewards are better more significant, you may also run 5's...the exploration there is better.<br /><br />Balancing the issue with a revamped bounty system would not force them into either null or high-sec... as high-sec's mechanics prevent them from flourishing for the most part, and null-sec empires are much greater in number and a have a great interest in ensuring there space is as secure as possible.<br /><br />It seems you've spent little to no time at all contemplating the issue, and are responding emotionally due to some bad experiences.<br /><br />You've contributed nothing here. I wonder at your motivation to be heard on the issue...but effectively say nothing at all.Foxgguy2001https://www.blogger.com/profile/04135813567318335680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-17136585964730718752011-01-10T13:26:23.655-05:002011-01-10T13:26:23.655-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.xDownSetxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12666324620878649595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-35276372349199244892011-01-10T10:04:27.632-05:002011-01-10T10:04:27.632-05:00CCP has provided a place for those who provide no ...CCP has provided a place for those who provide no value to the game as a whole to gather and lovingly stroke each others' e-peens. Why would you change that? The scum and sociopaths are clearly identified simply by being there. The rest of the population just have to pass thru the ghetto on those occasions they are forced to due to routing necessities to get somewhere useful or (shudder) running the occasional mission that can't be declined and quickly jump back to back to wherever they came from. Changing the dynamic without changing the underlying mechanics and rules of the game that currently 100% favor the criminals and you run the risk of ruining the useful areas instead of them congregating mostly in just the shitty lowsec systems. If anything, more direct hisec to nullsec routes should be created and missions issued in highsec should never be routed into lowsec...the region was left to rot by CCP for a reason IMO...finsh the job.Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08518386489741072523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-81370709303526483752011-01-09T12:42:14.725-05:002011-01-09T12:42:14.725-05:00Jager,
After reading through I have to say... I ag...Jager,<br />After reading through I have to say... I agree with most everything you've said...I'll respond more appropriately on your blog.Foxgguy2001https://www.blogger.com/profile/04135813567318335680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-17363103871555855342011-01-09T12:32:26.356-05:002011-01-09T12:32:26.356-05:00after re-reading above I see you've your own b...after re-reading above I see you've your own blog on the issue... I'll have a look and better-inform myself a bit before responding<br /><br />*brb*Foxgguy2001https://www.blogger.com/profile/04135813567318335680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-88853492931179722322011-01-09T12:09:19.332-05:002011-01-09T12:09:19.332-05:00Maybe we should start by defining perception since...Maybe we should start by defining perception since it seems some of us are using it differently than others. Perception is "the act or faculty of apprehending (understanding) by means of the senses or of the mind." Or "The result or product of perceiving" where perceiving is defined "to recognize, discern, envision, or understand."<br /><br />By definition, to perceive Low Sec properly, one must interact with it fully. It takes more than reading the opinions of others or simply passing through to come to a complete understanding of what Low Sec is.<br /><br />"There are no alluring incentives for roaming gangs of anti-pirates seeking bounties as the system is broken."<br /><br />This is true. That's why the Bounty System needs fixing. I've already said that I agree that the bounty system is one of the problems with Low Sec.<br /><br />"There are none seeking to ensure the protection of the traversing innocent capsuleer’s who might otherwise be ransomed or podded by pirates."<br /><br />We at the Tuskers offer protection services. Of course it isn't free, but nothing in life is. We want to see traders and the like come in and stimulate our market.<br /><br />"Right now the incentive exists only to exploit the weak, targets of opportunity."<br /><br />I'd rather attack and ransom someone in a (PvP) battleship than someone in a Velator. The battleship pilot stands to lose more, therefore making him more likely to pay a ransom. The guy in the Velator is the weakest, but he's just as likely to let me blow up his Velator. After all, it's free.Jager Dahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10104277655818775331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-70293418849076880772011-01-09T09:36:25.425-05:002011-01-09T09:36:25.425-05:00I believe responding to a differing perception of ...I believe responding to a differing perception of low-sec with "Also, don't even try to tell me my perception of Low Sec is wrong." is exactly cause for disregarding your opinion or perception altogether. The fact that we may not reside in or simply only pass through low-sec does not nullify our own perceptions. <br />I'm curious, what have you done aside from your response here to combat the ‘erroneous’ perspective the majority of us seem to have?<br />I believe (like most of us do) that the balance of low-sec is indeed broken. In-fact these 'pirates' organize and commit crimes in an attempt simply to cause 'tears' or grief to players. While in the big picture they may not be many in numbers, there effect is compounded by one inescapable fact....there is no equal and opposite reaction. There are no alluring incentives for roaming gangs of anti-pirates seeking bounties as the system is broken. There are none seeking to ensure the protection of the traversing innocent capsuleer’s who might otherwise be ransomed or podded by pirates. Right now the incentive exists only to exploit the weak, targets of opportunity. <br />The result? Well, as many have said… low-sec is a badlands. What of the pirates whose exploits have resulted in there complete or partial banishment from high-sec? They make forum posts saying “it’s too easy for capsuleer’s to avoid pvp” and “high-sec is to safe” it’s interesting to see they’ve not the insight to see, you’ve simply reaped what you’ve sewn. <br />Of course there are exceptions… the resilient few who find a home there, who adapt and evade. To say that it’s unbroken simply because a few have found it adaptable, maybe even appealing…is far from a factual or flawless perspective.Foxgguy2001https://www.blogger.com/profile/04135813567318335680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-46459036344758120342011-01-08T20:27:34.220-05:002011-01-08T20:27:34.220-05:00There is a fix for the bounty system that wasn'...There is a fix for the bounty system that wasn't answered by your arguments, though its implementation would involve other problems.<br /><br />http://paritybit.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/instant-bad-ass-o-meter/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-10137112749010097082011-01-08T12:35:14.497-05:002011-01-08T12:35:14.497-05:00It's posts like these cause the perception of ...It's posts like these cause the perception of Low Sec to be flawed. You write in a manner that implies your arguments are all fact-based, even though a discussion like this is entirely based on opinion. This leads readers to believe there is a problem with Low Sec (assuming they have no experience there), because of the fact-toned writing style you have. <br /><br />Now, I'd have much less of a problem with your post if you came out right away and said "This is my opinion of what Low Sec is like and what the problem is" instead of "I will attempt to explain Low Sec. I will explain how it got into its current state, and how current events and calls for fixes are simply not going to work. I will also reveal the true reason for Low Sec's demise, and who is responsible for fixing it."<br /><br />Instead of reinforcing the misguided perception, help us combat it. (Which, despite your beliefs, you are not doing here.)<br /><br />Also, don't even try to tell me my perception of Low Sec is wrong. To get a complete understanding of Low Sec and have even a remotely accurate perception, you need to live there first. Not just pass through. Live there. Understand what it takes to move about, bring in supplies, defend or attack, rat, mission, mine, etc.Jager Dahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10104277655818775331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-57423872692704837122011-01-08T07:26:11.693-05:002011-01-08T07:26:11.693-05:00Guys, many of you are missing the point of the ent...Guys, many of you are missing the point of the entire post. Its about the Perception of Lowsec. That asshole part? That's part of the perception. I know, shocker right? Some of your clients might not think your shit doesn't stink. I'm not calling you assholes. I actually have nothing but the utmost respect for (most) pirates. Most of you are well organized, good at what you do, well prepared, well funded and (most importantly) execute well. You are honorable in respecting ransoms. I respect all of those things about you. I never called you an asshole, you are taking it out of context.<br /><br />Its all about the Perception. And the perception can be right or wrong. In your case, its probably wrong. But that is what it is. I'm merely trying to pull the curtain back to allow a peek at the wizard.<br /><br />Moreover, if you read and understood the entire article, you would realize that I'm not solely blaming you. The blame for the Perception is shouldered by ALL of us who play eve. Just like the the perception that null sec is safer because of the Null sec alliances is because of direct actions of the players. <br /><br />I'm not advocating a fix. I'm not on an anti-pirate campaign. I was trying to understand why so much time and effort is spent trying to figure out how to "fix" lowsec. Personally I think lowsec doesn't need to be "fixed". I think its fine. However, the perception is out there and I was just trying to present it without allowing my own personal feelings to cloud what I found. <br /><br />The "I have a dream" part? That was me tongue in cheek referring to the civil rights movement. Clearly you missed the reference. <br /><br />Its the perception guys.<br /><br />I refuse to be dragged into a flame war. I also refuse to listen to some of you insult me, my writing style, or the research and things I've done to prepare for this. So unless it has something to do with the main point (the perception of lowsec) and its even slightly flamey, it gets deleted.<br /><br />Thanks for those of you who are giving good constructive comments!Shadaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03942277881963969067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-36597875597790114542011-01-08T02:08:41.632-05:002011-01-08T02:08:41.632-05:00By stating that pirates don't shoot other pira...By stating that pirates don't shoot other pirates you are revealing that you have done next to no research and that you do not have anything close to an "unbiased" view. Go look at pirate killboards and take a look at just how many other pirates show up on it.<br /><br />Your entire viewpoint seems to be predicated on the idea that pirates are "assholes", not really a good point of view to come from when you want to be unbiased. Pirates simply play the game differently and enjoy different things about the game. Also many pirates are also industrialists, whether it be on their main or on an alt. And they engage in that industry in both high-sec and low-sec ( and 0.0 ).<br /><br />Additionally, you are proposing a low-sec where you are free to mission and mine without being interrupted, which is contrary to the very idea of lowsec.RThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11491192239877700517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-34983691323141552122011-01-08T00:09:30.479-05:002011-01-08T00:09:30.479-05:00"I have a dream of CONCORD having roving patr..."I have a dream of CONCORD having roving patrols and posts in Low Sec, who can and will CONCORD people who break the “law” in that system. I have a dream where CONCORD's roving patrols actively seek to destroy pirates who are flashy red in system. Those that decide to become an outlaw should be randomly ganked by CONCORD so that there is a definitive drawback to negative sec status."<br /><br />That sounds quite a bit like an anti-pirate "fix," so don't try to go back and say you aren't advocating another fix.<br /><br />You imply in your comment that you aren't attacking our way of life (as pirates) when in your original post you say things like "The only place they can be an asshole and get flashy red in the process." I'm an asshole just because I choose to ransom and PvP in Low Sec? Damn, that sounds an awful lot like an attack.Jager Dahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10104277655818775331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-70789178171059940572011-01-07T14:30:43.877-05:002011-01-07T14:30:43.877-05:00I'm not really one to comment on my own post b...I'm not really one to comment on my own post but I feel like I have to in this instance.<br /><br />I've appeared to piss off a lot of pirates.<br /><br />Its cool, posting something like this I kinda expected it. After all, they seem to be thinking I'm attacking their way of life, and if the situation was reversed I'd probably feel the same way.<br /><br />However they for the most part are missing the point of the entire article. <br /><br />The TL:DR point of the entire article is everyone seems so bent on "fixing" lowsec that I wanted to know why. Whats so damn broken about it? The CSM is rallying constantly to "fix" it and most of the "fixes" are designed to bring people back into the sector. Why is that? Simply put, the perception that is created by the pirate culture against others has put it that way. I've mentioned some of the most popular "fixes" and explained why they aren't going to work, and why lowsec will return to status quo. The point is to identify the PROBLEM, not solve it. I'm not advocating a pirate free lowsec. I'm not advocating another fix. Merely I'm trying to point out the problem. Only then can we as players come up with an acceptable solution. The shotgun method that is currently being used is clearly not going to work.<br /><br />And as such, you can agree or disagree with the article's main point. If you disagree that is completely fine with me, just do it constructively. Thanks ;)Shadaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03942277881963969067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3156991624486881146.post-34655234318732543112011-01-07T11:48:42.343-05:002011-01-07T11:48:42.343-05:00No need for special upkeep, pirates pay just as mu...No need for special upkeep, pirates pay just as much tax as anyone else in EVE.<br /><br />Another option would be to have pirate gates open for everyone but with guns that will shoot anyone not outlaw/GCC.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09724122171571714434noreply@blogger.com